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Unidentified flying objects, flying saucers, those things that we hear about, and some

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of us see and some of us don't.

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We have an expert on the subject, Mr. Ray Fowler, whose full-time occupation is that

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of a member of the scientific, the electronic community, and who avocationally is chairman

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of the Massachusetts Subcommittee of NYCAP, which probably is the most respected organization

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in the entire world which goes into the field of UFOs.

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We'll be back in about 67.

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My guest this evening, as I said before, is Ray Fowler, chairman of the Massachusetts

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Subcommittee of NYCAP, the organization most respected throughout the entire world in the

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field of unidentified flying objects.

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Now there are those who believe in them very frankly, and there are those who say that

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they are hogwash.

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I think it's safe to say, sir, that in the minds of a great many people in the general

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public, that there is a feeling that even though we haven't seen flying saucers, our flying

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objects that we can't identify to our satisfaction, that we have the at least sneaky feeling, that

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where there is this much smoke, there has to be a little bit of fire somewhere.

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Anybody who has studied the UFO problem over the years would be convinced that UFOs are

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real.

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Now whether they are interplanetary is another question, of course.

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I personally believe that there is good observational evidence, not proof mind you, but good observational

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evidence that there are unknown objects coming into our atmosphere under intelligent control,

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and that they have been seen by people from all over the world ruling out any aircraft

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that the United States might have or any other country because of the fantastic maneuvers,

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the ability to take right angle turns, for example, at fantastic speed, the ability to

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hover for several minutes and then move off at blinding speed.

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I believe that they are under intelligent control because they behave like intelligently

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controlled objects.

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But now could these be something known as cosmic coincidence?

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Could these be explained away as astrophysical phenomena, light reflections and refractions?

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The United States Air Force and NICAP and any reputable UFO group would agree that there

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are many objects which can be identified either as misinterpretation of natural phenomena

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or misidentification of common aircraft.

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I would say that out of all the reports that we, the NICAP Massachusetts subcommittee received,

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that about 80% can be explained as either misinterpretation of natural phenomena such

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as the planet Venus.

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We've gotten quite a few reports of the planet Venus as being a UFO over there in the west,

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planet Jupiter, sun dogs, light reflecting off from aircraft and what have you.

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But there is a good 15 to 20% of UFOs that cannot be explained.

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These are not just lights in the sky.

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These are functional looking objects, solid objects that have been seen at close range.

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Some people have been fortunate enough to get within a few hundred feet of these objects

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and recently too and what they saw was certainly no conventional object.

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Recently a group of psychiatrists out in Chicago came forth with a fascinating explanation

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for UFO sightings.

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They said that more and more people are engaging in a process known as hallucinating either

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at a conscious or a subconscious level and that they are quite honestly and quite accurately

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thinking that they see these things either by choice or by lack of choice.

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But that this is a process of the mind that it's almost a form of psychosomatism such

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as you would find in, I suddenly decide that I have a disease and even though I don't have

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one physiologically if I think I've got it, it still hurts.

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I'm sure that this is true in some cases.

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In the study of UFOs as in the study of any subject whether it be politics, theology,

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philosophy or what have you there are various positions and there is a certain position,

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a certain group within the study of UFOs which is known as the contactee position.

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These people of course are the ones who have met the beings from outer space, the brothers

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from on high who have a revelation to our planet earth who have come to bring peace on earth

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and what have you.

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They have been invited aboard the craft, have flown to Venus and Jupiter and throughout

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the solar system.

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And I think George Adamsky is now left hasn't he?

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That's right George Adamsky is left.

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But there are many people, good, sane, reliable people.

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People with highly technical backgrounds, airline pilots for example who have flown

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for years and years.

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Who are trained to train.

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Who are trainers in the sky.

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Right.

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Dr. J. Allen Heineck recently he came out with an article I believe in Christian Science

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Monitor concerning this subject in the 1961 issue of Yale Scientific Magazine said the

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following.

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Now J. Allen Heineck is the chief UFO consultant for Project Blue Book, the Air Force Project.

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He said this concerning people who see UFOs.

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The surprising thing is that the level of intelligence of the observers and reporters

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of UFOs is certainly at least average and in many cases decidedly above average.

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In some cases embarrassingly above average.

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And this comes from a man who has studied perhaps more UFO reports than we personally

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will ever see.

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Dr. J. Allen I don't know whether there is a direct corollary

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here, Mitch Fowler, but the Yale Institute for Alcohol Studies has found that the average

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IQ of the alcoholic is substantially higher than that of the general public.

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Dr. J. Allen If UFO sightings depended just upon the human senses alone one would also

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begin to suspect that such a thing could be true, that these could be hallucinations.

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But there have been many cases where electronic equipment have picked up UFOs such as radar.

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That is a number of people have seen an object in the sky, radar, several radars sometimes

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have picked this object up and has tracked the object.

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A good solid return.

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The radar following the maneuvers, the human eye following the maneuvers and what have

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you.

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UFOs also have been seen on the ground and have left physical evidence.

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One of the best I would say UFO sightings we have had in several years took place down

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in Socarro, New Mexico.

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And here we have a policeman who will approach within about 100 to 200 feet of one.

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If you care to go into this sighting, very very interesting.

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The place where the UFO sighting took place was Socarro, New Mexico.

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The sighting took place on April 24, 1964.

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The witness was patrolman Lonnie Zamora.

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He was chasing a speeding car on South Park Street down in Socarro when he heard this

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tremendous roar and looked out to his right out the window and saw this blue cone shaped

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flame coming out of the sky and descending beyond the hills.

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Thinking this very unusual and knowing that there was a dynamite shack in the area, he

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radioed back to headquarters as he was going to chase the car any longer but he was going

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to investigate this explosion.

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He rode down a dirt road to a macer, I guess they call the hills maces down there and get

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up and talk to them.

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That's what they call them.

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Right.

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I know that part of the country.

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He got on top of a macer and he looked over to another macer in the gully, in the gully

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over there.

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He saw what at first looked like an automobile, turned upside down with some people standing

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by it, two people.

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Another look though convinced him that he wasn't looking at an automobile at all.

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It was a white object.

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He longated on four stilts and the people or whatever they were were only three and a

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half, four feet tall.

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Well again, he radioed back, told headquarters what he had seen and asked for the state police

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to come out at once and help him.

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I think I would.

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Then he proceeded down into the gully, losing sight of the object momentarily and then getting

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up on top of the macer, just adjacent to the gully where this object was.

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There it was.

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He looked out the car window, there it was.

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The people or creatures or whatever they were were gone but there was the object as

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his plan as day.

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He again radioed back to headquarters what he was witnessing and said he was going to

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leave the cruiser to investigate.

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He got out of the cruiser and he only had taken several steps toward the object when

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this blue flame appeared at the bottom of the object and a loud ear splitting roar came

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from the object.

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He thought it was going to blow up in his face and he turned and started running, started

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running, he went right by the cruiser and he got down, crouched down and he watched

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the object.

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The object lifted off the ground for about 20 feet off the gully and then it stopped.

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The blue flame shrank very slowly to nothing.

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The roar stopped and a very high pitched wine took over dropping quickly to a low pitched

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wine and then it was completely silent and then it moved off following the contour of

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the gully.

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He said when it moved off you could have heard a pin drop.

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A seconds later, Sergeant Samuel Cheve of the New Mexico State Police arrived on the scene.

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Both of them went down on the gully.

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There were four large indentations, 12 inches by 6 inches and approximately 6 inches deep.

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In the area between these four indentations, the grease wood was burning, the shrubbery

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was burning, some of the shrubbery was broken.

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Something physical had been there.

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The Air Force made a complete investigation as Nightcap did as well and Jay Allen Heineck

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again whom I mentioned earlier came out publicly stating that after his investigation he was

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convinced that Lani Zamora was telling the truth.

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Isn't it curious that usually those of these sightings are affected by solitary people,

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not by people in groups.

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At least those that I have heard of have been the experience of individuals.

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Probably where we find reports or have I heard of reports of, shall we say, a sighting

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by 80,000 people in the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, Texas are in one of the huge times square.

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There have been many sightings.

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In fact, in this documentary I have in front of me called the UFO Evidence, which is available

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to the public from Nightcap, are hundreds of reports selected from thousands of reports

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from Nightcap's file which will give you in detail documented reports such as the type

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that you haven't seen.

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Of group sightings.

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Of group sightings.

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Let me tell you of one that was very interesting.

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Interesting in that it only occurred several miles from where I live in Wenham, not too

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many miles from Boston.

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It took place in the Exeter, New Hampshire area and it involved four persons, two of

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them police officers, one of whom got within 100 feet of the object.

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It all started in the early morning hours of September 3, 1965.

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Patrolman Bertram of the Exeter, New Hampshire police department was patrolling the roads

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around Exeter.

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This was just after midnight and he came across this woman parked by the road all alone.

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He wondered what was going on so he pulled up in the cruiser and said, what's the matter

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lady can I help you?

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She watered gas and she was so frightened she could hardly talk.

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She described this object which had chased her between Effing and Exeter as being egg

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shaped carrying bright pulsating red lights.

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The object actually made passes at her.

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Well this was too much for Officer Bertram.

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He listened very politely and then went on his way after he felt reasonably sure that

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the woman was alright and forgot about it.

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He didn't even take her name or her address.

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He'd been patrolling the roads and about a half hour later he got an emergency call

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from police headquarters in Exeter asking him to report immediately that a teenage boy,

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a hitchhiker, had just stumbled into the police station in a near state of shock claiming

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that he had been approached by this huge object along Route 150.

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While Bertram was sorry he didn't make passes at him too.

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While he, while we're getting to that and he was very sorry then that he hadn't gotten

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the name and address of the woman but he shot back to headquarters.

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Now this boy Norman Muscarello was hitchhiking between Amesbury, Massachusetts and Exeter along

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Route 150 which is a very dark road, no lights or anything and as he was walking between

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two farm houses there's a big field there and all of a sudden the field lit up bright

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red which is like dawn he said and he looked up and he couldn't believe what he saw.

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Coming across the field in sort of a rocking motion was this huge egg shaped object carrying

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five red pulsating or rotating lights.

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He continued to come toward him, he dove up against the stone wall, it was petrified

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in De De Mou.

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It came by, by him and hovered over a house, the house of Mr. Carl Dining I believe, no

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Carl Russell.

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The house was only 30 feet away and he could tell by the size of the house that the object

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was at least 80 or 90 feet long, not a bit of sound came from this object.

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It hovered there for a very long five minutes and then it took off over the tree line.

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As soon as that object got out of there Norman got up and he went and potted on that Mr.

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Russell's door yelling for help, mind you this is in the early morning hours around

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one or two o'clock in the morning.

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Mr. and Mrs. Russell got up and asked him what was the matter and he said he was chased

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by a flying saucer because they thought they had a drunk on their hands and they told him

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to get lost.

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Oh, they didn't.

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Right, so he took off down the road scared stiff and they cocked him by, fortunately,

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and picked him up and brought him to the police station and that's when the call was made

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to Bertram.

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Well, Bertram came in and they interrogated the boy and they decided that Bertram should

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go back to the field and take a look for himself.

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All he did, they went back to the field and they sat there in the cruiser and they couldn't

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see anything.

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Well, Bertram was just about to give up and come back and when he was instructed from

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headquarters that he ought to go out in the field and flash the light around and make

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a routine check anyhow.

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So Bertram and Norman went out in the field.

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He said they had gotten about 100 feet out in the field and he was flashing his light

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around very disgusted with the whole thing.

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And all of a sudden the kid yell, look out, here it comes.

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He said he whipped around and he couldn't believe what he saw.

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He was this big object, seemed to him bigger in a house, coming across the field parallel

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to them carrying these five bright red lights so bright he said you couldn't even look

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at them without your eyes hurting.

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All of a sudden the object stopped, it tilted and started to close on them.

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He, without even realizing it, pulled out his revolver and started to yell, I'm going

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to shoot it.

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And then he thought better of it and put the revolver back into his pocket and by that

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time he said it was about 100 feet up and about 100 feet from them and the red lights

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were so bright that he couldn't even hardly see and he yelled for the kid to take cover

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on the cruiser.

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Well, Norman just froze, he didn't move.

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So Officer Bertram said he had to grab the kid and practically drag him across the field

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with the cruiser.

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He said he could hardly hold a microphone at the call headquarters for help but he did.

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He called headquarters and officer Hunt came on the scene.

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The three of them stood there for about 10 minutes and watched this UFO hovering about

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100 feet off the ground over this field.

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Not one noise coming from, not a bit of noise coming from it, this rocking motion and the

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lights flashing on and off in sequence.

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Now independently interrogated these three individuals to substantiulate the same story?

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Yes.

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Right.

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I went up to the very key point.

244
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Yes, the Air Force was up there just ahead of me.

245
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They made a complete investigation.

246
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In fact, the first thing they told the policeman was to not to report this to the public to

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keep it quiet but it was too late.

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Several newspapers had already heard about it and they had reporters out there and gotten

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pictures and it broke the next day.

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And then I was told by several people that some of the Air Force officers were buying

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up the papers in the area.

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But their investigation took place over several days.

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I went up and got signed statements from the witnesses.

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It's very interesting to also note that John Fuller of the Saturday Review heard about

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this report and I sent him a copy, a summary copy of what we sent to NiCAP and his magazine

256
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made a complete check of the sighting as well.

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Checked my investigation step by step and published it in the October 2nd issue.

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He himself also went up there and talked to the witnesses and was convinced that this

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sighting actually took place.

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Of course, the Air Force since then has come out and said that there was a temperature

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inversion that night and what the officers saw were probably stars or planets of blinking

262
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under strange atmospheric conditions.

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This is typical of the Air Force type of answer to a sighting like this.

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My guest is Ray Fowler, the chairman of the Massachusetts sub-community of NiCAP.

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We're talking about UFOs.

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We're going to very soon open up the phones and I'm sure that some of you have had sightings.

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I'm sure that you've had sightings and that you aren't just in fact, you know, sinking.

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I'm glad that you said magazines there because this leaves me into one of our sponsors.

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You're tuned for Radio 68's Boston Forum.

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My name is Haywood Vincent.

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My guest is Ray Fowler, the chairman of the Massachusetts sub-committee of NiCAP.

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We're talking about UFOs, unidentified flying objects.

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What they mean, whether they're real, whether the people who see them have been, oh, what

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things called the pop parties, whether they are trying, as some have indicated.

275
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:14,720
This is a theory that's been foot-forthed too.

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00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,280
I think we might go into it, Mr. Fowler.

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00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:25,200
There are a great many people who are of more than average intelligence who have failed

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to achieve what in their own mind is their own potential and they are seeking some type

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of notoriety.

280
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Sometimes these people turn into gangsters.

281
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Sometimes they confess to crimes which they haven't had any part in.

282
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I think our various police groups can substantiate this.

283
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,880
They are seeking to be known and to be recognized.

284
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:58,400
There are those who feel that there are some who claim that they have seen UFOs and who

285
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,640
can describe them in meticulous detail who know that as a result they'll find their names

286
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:09,000
and NiCAP bulletins, they're going to be interviewed, they're going to be in the press, on radio,

287
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,040
on TV, and that they seek this sort of recognition.

288
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:14,040
Would you comment?

289
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:19,960
I'm sure that you'll find many individuals like this, not only in NiCAP but in any group,

290
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,320
whether it be a religious group, an organization like NiCAP.

291
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:31,160
In fact, the contactee group I mentioned has almost become a religious type cult.

292
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:38,960
I believe although I am a Christian layman, I believe in many cases the churches have

293
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:47,040
failed in many ways and the people are turning to these cults and UFO cults if you will.

294
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,800
This type of person that you mentioned especially, very gollible, PT Bynum said that there's

295
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,560
a soccer ball in every minute.

296
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:59,840
Men like George Adamski and others like him are able to get quite a following.

297
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:05,960
George Adamski started out as a janitor at Palomar Gardens, a little restaurant on the

298
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,920
foot of Mount Palomar where a big 200-inch telescope is.

299
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:15,280
He ended up with hundreds of thousands of dollars, his name known throughout the world,

300
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:20,360
written several books on the subject and even now his name, his works are being carried

301
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:21,360
on.

302
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,520
However, he's been pretty much denounced though by the responsible people in this field, has

303
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:26,520
he not said?

304
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:34,400
Definitely, NiCAP has investigated all major contactee cases and groups and have found

305
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,480
them the type of group that you mentioned.

306
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,160
NiCAP frowns upon contactees.

307
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,840
We feel that they do more harm than government suppression.

308
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,520
Let's take a look at some of the people who are on the NiCAP Board of Governors.

309
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:52,080
Perhaps this would answer your question a little bit better, Haywood.

310
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:58,600
Our first chairman of the Board of Governors, for example, was Vice Admiral Rosco H. Hillenketer,

311
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,160
former head of the Central Intelligence Agency.

312
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,320
He was on our Board of Governors for five years and he made many public statements to the press

313
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:13,520
during his tenure, one of which is, quote, the unknown objects are operating under intelligent

314
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:14,760
control.

315
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,520
It is imperative that we learn where they come from.

316
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,760
Another board member, Rear Admiral Del Maffani, former chief of the Navy-guided Missiles Division

317
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,960
stated, reliable reports indicate that unidentified objects are coming into our atmosphere at

318
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,360
very high speeds and that they are controlled.

319
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:36,880
We have several men on our Board of Governors and panel of special advisors who are in the

320
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,560
United States Air Force UFO project.

321
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:48,680
For example, former Major Dewey Founais was the Pentagon Monitor for the whole USAFO project

322
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,280
and he is now a member of NiCAP's Board of Governors.

323
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,280
I could go on and on.

324
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,760
Dr. Charles P. Olivier, president of the American Media Society, is a member of our

325
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,040
Board of Governors.

326
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,680
We have men from all walks of life on our Board of Governors who are experts in their

327
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:04,680
fields.

328
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,520
The panel of special advisors include experts in every branch of science and these men mean

329
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:11,520
business.

330
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,520
Some of them have seen UFOs.

331
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,520
It's an intriguing subject, sir.

332
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,020
We're having phone calls right now.

333
00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:18,040
I don't even have a call for them.

334
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:24,800
On this show, the phone lines are always open at DE-86510, Devon, Chair 86510.

335
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,240
We do ask that you be brief and concise and to the point and that when you find you're

336
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,140
on the air, please turn that radio down.

337
00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:33,140
You are on the air now.

338
00:22:33,140 --> 00:22:34,140
Hello, Mr. Vincent.

339
00:22:34,140 --> 00:22:35,140
Yes, ma'am.

340
00:22:35,140 --> 00:22:40,140
You know, a few minutes back you mentioned the sighting usually being isolated witnesses.

341
00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:41,140
Yes, ma'am.

342
00:22:41,140 --> 00:22:46,500
And I thought that really you should bring up the fact, Mr. Fowler knows about it, that

343
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:54,780
one of the most famous sightings was witnessed by 400 people aboard an IGY ship and photographs

344
00:22:54,780 --> 00:23:01,140
were obtained and there were witnesses to the developing of the photographs and perhaps

345
00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:07,060
you could get Mr. Fowler to tell about that because it is so important, such a well-documented

346
00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:12,900
case and this really shows that there are oftentimes big groups of witnesses.

347
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:13,900
Good.

348
00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:14,900
This is the thing that I was seeking, ma'am.

349
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:20,980
Yes, and also I would wonder if the psychiatrist would be able to explain anything like that.

350
00:23:20,980 --> 00:23:25,100
Another one which had 37 witnesses was the father Gilles' side in New Guinea.

351
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:26,100
Yes.

352
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:29,940
And I think if he would tell about both of those, it would present a good case for the

353
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:30,940
US fall.

354
00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:31,940
Thank you very much.

355
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:33,980
Thank you for the call, one and two.

356
00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:41,460
But we would like to have a response to the specific query of this caller who spoke of

357
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:51,740
the 400 people on the IGY ship who had a mass sighting, I think it could be called that,

358
00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:59,100
and the father Gilles' sighting which included, I think, 37 people in New Zealand, was it?

359
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:03,420
It was on one of the new islands in New Guinea, I forget the exact name of the island.

360
00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:07,780
First of all, let me just comment briefly on the Trindati sightings which this woman

361
00:24:07,780 --> 00:24:08,780
mentioned.

362
00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:16,420
It took place on the IGY ship, or from the IGY ship, El Marante Saldana on January 16,

363
00:24:16,420 --> 00:24:18,220
1958.

364
00:24:18,220 --> 00:24:22,860
The officers on board noticed this object approaching Trindati Island.

365
00:24:22,860 --> 00:24:29,540
It was egg shaped, I would say a flattened sphere and circled with a ring.

366
00:24:29,540 --> 00:24:32,380
Many of the officers came up on deck and watched this object.

367
00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:37,260
El Miro Barona, an expert submarine photographer, had his camera all set up on deck, taking

368
00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:42,340
pictures of training exercises, and he had a wonderful opportunity to take four photographs.

369
00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:48,100
One also was taken from the island, whereas the woman has mentioned hundreds of people

370
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:51,100
saw this UFO.

371
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:57,220
A careful analysis by the Brazilian government, several statements came out to the press concerning

372
00:24:57,220 --> 00:25:05,540
this object after the negatives were examined by the Brazilian Air Force and Navy photo labs,

373
00:25:05,540 --> 00:25:10,340
and the men were interrogated by the Brazilian military authorities.

374
00:25:10,340 --> 00:25:16,380
I'd like to quote, in fact, what the Navy minister said, the Brazilian Navy minister.

375
00:25:16,380 --> 00:25:21,860
I have a quotation right here, just a very, very short one.

376
00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:26,220
I didn't mean that the way it sounded, incidentally, with enthusiasm.

377
00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:30,020
It was established that no photographic tricks are involved, the negatives are normal, and

378
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:33,920
I might add that the president of Brazil actually came out with a public statement stating

379
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,580
that the photographs were authentic.

380
00:25:36,580 --> 00:25:43,780
The father Gilles Ciding took place on one of the islands, New Guinea, and he and his

381
00:25:43,780 --> 00:25:50,620
staff saw a UFO hovering over the harbor with three and a half to four foot humanoids on

382
00:25:50,620 --> 00:25:53,220
a railing looking like they were doing something to the object.

383
00:25:53,220 --> 00:25:54,220
The man...

384
00:25:54,220 --> 00:25:55,220
You better define humanoid for us.

385
00:25:55,220 --> 00:25:57,180
Well, they had arms and legs.

386
00:25:57,180 --> 00:25:58,180
That's about all it can be said.

387
00:25:58,180 --> 00:25:59,180
Little things.

388
00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:03,260
He flashed a light at them and they, one of them, raised an arm and waved.

389
00:26:03,260 --> 00:26:09,980
It's fantastic, but the man's character, a complete character check was made on Father

390
00:26:09,980 --> 00:26:14,340
Gilles by the Australian press, for example, and the people who were with him, they were

391
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:19,060
all missionaries and the natives and so forth, saw the object.

392
00:26:19,060 --> 00:26:24,500
A good sighting by reliable people, 37 of them, saw this object at fairly close range.

393
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:27,700
I wish I could say more about it, but I don't have the details with me right now.

394
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:31,900
We're going to take a brief pause and come right back with a phone call to DE86510.

395
00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:32,900
You're on the air now.

396
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:36,100
I'm not just trying to tell you my name, but I don't know...

397
00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:37,100
Mr. Fowler.

398
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:42,100
I would like to...I'm a friend believer and I read everything I can lay my hands on.

399
00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:43,100
Yes, ma'am.

400
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:48,060
And he suggested that it was possible to get a booklet of pamphlets.

401
00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:49,860
That was in the beginning of the program.

402
00:26:49,860 --> 00:26:50,860
Would he repeat that?

403
00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:52,260
I'd like very much to get it.

404
00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:53,260
If you would, Mr. Fowler.

405
00:26:53,260 --> 00:26:56,420
I'll repeat this for you and for all those who are listening.

406
00:26:56,420 --> 00:27:01,780
If you would like to have free information concerning our subcommittee work and the publications

407
00:27:01,780 --> 00:27:09,300
that are available, please send a self-addressed stamped envelope to Ray Fowler, Wenham, Massachusetts.

408
00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:13,500
That's Ray Fowler, Wenham, Massachusetts, W-E-N-H-A-M.

409
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:18,260
Just request material on UFO.

410
00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:19,260
That's right.

411
00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:22,500
And you'll get a list of the material that is available from NYCAP.

412
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:25,500
This program is absolutely fascinating.

413
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:26,500
Well, thank you.

414
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:28,500
We hope you'll tell your friends, too.

415
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:34,500
Believe you me, if the scientists believe in this, I certainly do, too.

416
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,500
Well, there are scientists who do and scientists who do not.

417
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:38,500
Well, I'm with the ones who do.

418
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:39,500
We come fair enough.

419
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:40,500
Thanks for the call.

420
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:41,500
Thank you.

421
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:43,500
Devin Cherry, 6510, you're on the air now.

422
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:44,500
Hello.

423
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:45,500
Yes, sir.

424
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:46,500
And say, we're Vincent.

425
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:50,500
Mr. Vincent, I have two short questions for Mr. Fowler.

426
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:51,500
All right, sir.

427
00:27:51,500 --> 00:28:00,500
Number one, is there any evidence whatsoever that these UFOs in any way have interfered

428
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:07,500
with the malfunction of some of our jet planes?

429
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:14,500
Number two, is there any evidence at all of the information coming out from the Antarctic

430
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:20,500
that they have cited these and that this information and photograph, and they'll be back here,

431
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:23,500
take six months to come back?

432
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:24,500
All right, sir.

433
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:25,500
Great, Fowler.

434
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:26,500
Right.

435
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:31,500
The answer to your first question, there have been many documented cases where UFOs have

436
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:38,500
interfered with the ignition of automobile headlights, engine, radio, and what have you.

437
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:43,500
So that they could have interfered with 707, 808, 880s, and that sort of thing.

438
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:44,500
This is possible.

439
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:49,500
There also have been documented reports of UFOs approaching aircraft and the navigational

440
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,500
instruments going haywire in the engine starting to quit.

441
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,500
This is possible, but it is speculation, I'd warn you to.

442
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:56,500
Thank you.

443
00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:57,500
Right.

444
00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:02,500
Also, there have been cases where UFOs have knocked out power.

445
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:07,500
This question hasn't come up yet, but I want to say that so far, NICAP has received no

446
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:13,500
information concerning any UFOs responsible for the power knockout that we experienced.

447
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:18,500
Now, the sighting in Chile, or was it the Antarctic that you mentioned?

448
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:19,500
The Antarctic.

449
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:20,500
Right.

450
00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:22,500
There were three scientific bases involved down there.

451
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:27,500
Personnel on all three scientific bases observed a huge lens-shaped UFO.

452
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,500
Ten color photos were taken.

453
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:32,500
Some photos were taken from aircraft.

454
00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:38,500
The UFO interrupted the electromagnetic detection instruments on the bases and also prevented

455
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:43,500
radio communication at several points when the bases tried to contact each other concerning

456
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:44,500
the sighting.

457
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:49,500
Is it true that those photos probably may have been made negative and will not show?

458
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:50,500
We don't know.

459
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:56,500
NICAP, of course, is doing its best to get hold of these photos, and we hope to get copies

460
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:57,500
of them.

461
00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:58,500
Thank you very much.

462
00:29:58,500 --> 00:29:59,500
Thanks for the call, sir.

463
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:00,500
We'll be right back.

464
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:02,500
This is Ava Vincent with Ray Fowler of NICAP.

465
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:03,500
Hello.

466
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:05,500
I just have one question.

467
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:06,500
Surely.

468
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:11,500
And I'd like to know if any parts have been obtained from any of these UFOs?

469
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:13,500
The claim is yes, I believe, Mr. Fowler.

470
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:18,500
One group of the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization on Tucson, Arizona claims to

471
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:20,500
have part or piece of UFO.

472
00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:22,500
I'm sure that the United States...

473
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:23,500
Baltimore?

474
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:25,500
I'm not too sure about that.

475
00:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,500
I don't want to make...I'm not too sure about that.

476
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:35,500
I would also mention the fact that AFR 200-2, the official Air Force General Order, has

477
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:39,500
a whole section concerning what to do with physical objects falling from UFOs or pots

478
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,500
of UFOs, how to package it, where to send it, and so forth.

479
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:49,500
So our Air Force, apparently, I believe, has obtained actual pieces of UFOs, if not more.

480
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:54,500
Of course, they aren't telling us yet concerning the nature of these pieces, but they're very

481
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:55,500
much interested in obtaining them.

482
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:57,500
We thank you for the call, too.

483
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:58,500
Thank you.

484
00:30:58,500 --> 00:30:59,500
We're short on time.

485
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:00,500
Now, the news is coming up at 7 o'clock.

486
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:04,500
Ray Fowler certainly has many stories, much evidence.

487
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:05,500
You have many questions.

488
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:11,500
We'll try to accommodate all those that we can, starting at 7.15, following the news,

489
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:14,500
as we return to Devonshire 86510.

490
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:15,500
So stay right with us.

491
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:22,500
Now, this is a good event again on Radio 68WNAC's Boston Forum, our phone number, DE86510.

492
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:26,500
Our guest, Ray Fowler of NYCAP, our subject, UFOs.

493
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:32,500
We do ask that you be brief, if you possibly will, and if you possibly can.

494
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:33,500
We have lots of calls.

495
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:39,500
We're opening up special lines that we may take care of all of you, if we can, and if

496
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:41,500
you'll let us, because I don't like cutting people off.

497
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:43,500
I don't like setting time limits.

498
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:47,500
This isn't our particular approach.

499
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:50,500
So we ask you to be very kind to each other.

500
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:53,500
I sound like Gary Moore, suddenly.

501
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:55,500
And I wish I had these loot.

502
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:56,500
Devonshire 86510.

503
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:57,500
Hello?

504
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:58,500
This is Edward Vincent.

505
00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:59,500
Yes.

506
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:00,500
Am I on the air?

507
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:01,500
Right now.

508
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:02,500
This is Edward Brunner with Johansson.

509
00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:03,500
Yes, ma'am.

510
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:04,500
We met once before.

511
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:05,500
Yes, indeed we did.

512
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:08,500
I'd like to ask your guest, Mr. Fowler, two things.

513
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:09,500
One is a very fast question.

514
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,500
I'd like to know what NICAP stands for.

515
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:13,500
NICAP, what does it stand for, Mr. Fowler?

516
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:16,500
The National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena.

517
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:17,500
Thank you.

518
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:24,500
Then I would like to ask you, if you have heard the comments that I heard on the news broadcast,

519
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:32,500
I believe it was at 2 o'clock this afternoon on WNAC, of a mysterious radio signal that

520
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:36,500
was coming from what they referred to as Area W3.

521
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:41,500
And the explanation that they gave was that it was a hot star surrounded by gas, but they

522
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:42,500
don't know what caused it.

523
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:44,500
I have heard nothing about this.

524
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:49,500
I've been at work all day and I haven't had a chance to listen to the radio, so I can't

525
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:50,500
make any comment on this.

526
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:55,500
Well, I've been listening to all the news broadcasts since then, and they haven't referred to it.

527
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:58,500
I wondered if it could possibly be any connection between...

528
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:59,500
Let me see.

529
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,500
We'll check our newsroom right now and find out what we have on it.

530
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:04,500
I think it was a 2 o'clock broadcast.

531
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:09,500
I know several hot stars were surrounded by gas, but they're in radio and television,

532
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:11,500
and we're not going to do this.

533
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:13,500
Well, this was Area W3.

534
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:14,500
Area W3.

535
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:15,500
That's right.

536
00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:18,500
And you think it was on our 2 p.m. news.

537
00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:20,500
I'm practically positive.

538
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,500
We'll try to find out what we have on it.

539
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:23,500
That was the news.

540
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:24,500
Fine.

541
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:25,500
Thanks very much, ma'am.

542
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:26,500
Thank you.

543
00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:27,500
Bye-bye.

544
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:28,500
Devonshire 86510.

545
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:33,500
I'd like to emphasize before we take this next call something that I just learned this

546
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:41,500
evening, and that is the fact that the late Dr. Carl Jung, one of the world's greatest

547
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:47,700
psychiatrists and psychoanalysts, the pupil of Sigmund Freud, that Freud himself said

548
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:54,940
that the pupil had exceeded the master in his mastery of the science of psychiatry and

549
00:33:54,940 --> 00:34:04,540
psychoanalysis was an enthusiastic believer in UFOs and the fact of their existence.

550
00:34:04,540 --> 00:34:06,820
And if you would explain that just briefly, Ray.

551
00:34:06,820 --> 00:34:11,620
Well, I think it'd be best just to quote what he said for NICAP.

552
00:34:11,620 --> 00:34:13,620
Quote, I am a NICAP subscriber.

553
00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:18,420
I'm grateful for all the courageous things you have done in elucidating the thorny problem

554
00:34:18,420 --> 00:34:20,100
of UFO reality.

555
00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:24,940
I do not possess sufficient evidence which would enable me to draw conclusions.

556
00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:29,380
The evidence available, however, is convincing enough to arouse a continuous and fervent

557
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:30,380
interest.

558
00:34:30,380 --> 00:34:36,300
If it is true that the American Air Force withholds telltaling facts, then one can only

559
00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:41,020
say this is the most unpsychological and stupid policy one could invent.

560
00:34:41,020 --> 00:34:43,460
The public ought to be told the truth.

561
00:34:43,460 --> 00:34:44,780
This is a quote from Dr. Jung.

562
00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:45,780
And quote, right.

563
00:34:45,780 --> 00:34:46,780
Thank you, sir.

564
00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:49,180
Devonshire 86510, you're on the air now.

565
00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:50,180
Hello.

566
00:34:50,180 --> 00:34:50,980
Thank you.

567
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:52,740
Hello, my name is Patty Pearson.

568
00:34:52,740 --> 00:34:58,060
My friends and I have a club about astronomy and we were wondering if someone met up with

569
00:34:58,060 --> 00:35:03,260
somebody, what would you do and who would you inform?

570
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:05,460
Do you mean from outer space, seemingly?

571
00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:06,300
Yes.

572
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:13,060
If you were to actually affect a contact with someone from a spaceship or from outer space,

573
00:35:13,060 --> 00:35:14,740
what should they do, Ms. Fowler?

574
00:35:14,740 --> 00:35:19,220
I would say this to the young lady and to all the listeners that if you see a UFO, the

575
00:35:19,220 --> 00:35:24,220
first thing you ought to do is call your nearest Air Force base and try to remember as much

576
00:35:24,220 --> 00:35:30,820
as possible concerning the details of your UFO sighting and contact your nearest NICAP

577
00:35:30,820 --> 00:35:32,900
representative.

578
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:33,900
Contact both.

579
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:37,980
The Air Force is the official organization you should report this UFO to and immediately.

580
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:38,980
Oh, I see.

581
00:35:38,980 --> 00:35:40,460
Thank you very much.

582
00:35:40,460 --> 00:35:41,460
Okay.

583
00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:42,460
Thank you for the call.

584
00:35:42,580 --> 00:35:51,860
We've been asked to repeat the address from which various forms of pamphlets and papers

585
00:35:51,860 --> 00:35:53,940
may be received, Ray, if you would say.

586
00:35:53,940 --> 00:35:54,940
Right.

587
00:35:54,940 --> 00:36:03,980
If you will send a self-addressed stamped envelope to Ray Fowler, that's Ray R-A-Y Fowler, F-O-W-L-E-R,

588
00:36:03,980 --> 00:36:10,060
13 Friend Court in Wenham, W-E-N-H-A-M, we'll get it right out to you.

589
00:36:10,060 --> 00:36:12,060
33 Friend Court.

590
00:36:12,140 --> 00:36:13,540
13 Friend Court.

591
00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:16,020
13 Friend Court in Wenham, Massachusetts.

592
00:36:16,020 --> 00:36:17,020
In Wenham, 13.

593
00:36:17,020 --> 00:36:20,140
And for those who have Triska Lechafolio, look out.

594
00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:26,780
Here's the item from the news incident at 2 p.m. that our previous Cohacic caller had

595
00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:29,020
referred to.

596
00:36:29,020 --> 00:36:34,180
Scientists at Bedford say they cannot explain the behavior of radio noises coming from a

597
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:38,780
spot in space labeled W-3.

598
00:36:38,780 --> 00:36:43,700
This noise itself has been identified, but the way it acts is unknown.

599
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:50,500
A team from MIT's Lincoln Labs says that the situation is surprising and extremely difficult

600
00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:52,460
to explain.

601
00:36:52,460 --> 00:37:01,100
Using the Air Force's 120-dish Atop Haystack Hill, Lincoln Labs team started studying W-3

602
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:09,740
because a group of scientists in far off California had reported radio sounds that might be produced

603
00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:12,220
from an unknown source.

604
00:37:12,220 --> 00:37:23,500
This Haystack Hill study shows that these radio noises are caused by an excitation, excitation,

605
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:31,380
a combination of oxygen and hydrogen known as hydroxyl radical.

606
00:37:31,380 --> 00:37:36,540
The report notes that the source is a hot star surrounded by gas from which radio energy

607
00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:38,940
is emitted.

608
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:45,380
These studies show that unlike other known space radio emissions, these W-3 noises have

609
00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:48,060
a sort of order to them.

610
00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:53,500
They are polarized and there is no way to explain how they got that way at this time,

611
00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:58,940
whether this time is in with last Tuesday evening, as some think it might.

612
00:37:58,940 --> 00:37:59,940
We don't know.

613
00:37:59,940 --> 00:38:05,300
We'll try to find out more as this evening goes on and we will on Monday evening on the

614
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:06,300
forum.

615
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:14,180
We will have the Dean of the School of Engineering from Northeastern University speaking with

616
00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:20,260
us and with other various and sundry experts and we certainly aren't the experts you are

617
00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:26,140
on the subject of the Great Northeast blackout which infused everyone on this past Tuesday.

618
00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:30,820
There have been ideas that this has been tied in with UFOs.

619
00:38:30,820 --> 00:38:37,140
There's been the idea that this has been controlled by space vehicles from other countries on

620
00:38:37,140 --> 00:38:38,140
earth.

621
00:38:38,140 --> 00:38:44,700
We'll go into the various ramifications and we will try to do something other than simply

622
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:47,700
speculate we hope to have some facts for you.

623
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:49,900
We're at Devonshire 86510, you're on the air.

624
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:51,380
Yes, how do you do?

625
00:38:51,380 --> 00:38:55,380
I'm here with two questions.

626
00:38:55,380 --> 00:39:00,860
You already answered the third one which had to do with the polarized source of sound from

627
00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:01,860
outer space.

628
00:39:01,860 --> 00:39:02,860
Right, sir.

629
00:39:02,860 --> 00:39:03,860
Two things.

630
00:39:03,860 --> 00:39:12,900
One is that every time one of these reports is, let's say one of these groups that talks

631
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:20,300
about reports, a great point is made of the fact that the Air Force is withholding information.

632
00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:24,460
Now this in itself sounds as though it's a built in excuse.

633
00:39:24,460 --> 00:39:31,300
Most of the UFO literature that's been written has this sort of built in thing that the Air

634
00:39:31,340 --> 00:39:33,020
Force is trying to cover things up.

635
00:39:33,020 --> 00:39:38,060
And this sort of makes it, I think that the information would stand much more strongly

636
00:39:38,060 --> 00:39:44,860
on its own two feet if this were left out because I think this begins to sound like

637
00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:46,620
people are protesting too much.

638
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:47,620
They're innocent.

639
00:39:47,620 --> 00:39:53,980
The other thing is that so much of the information is questionable.

640
00:39:53,980 --> 00:39:59,940
Like this blackout night on one of the other stations there was, there were a great number

641
00:39:59,980 --> 00:40:06,380
of calls yesterday or the day about watching this rising light and giving the degree and

642
00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:07,380
so forth.

643
00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:09,380
But yes, those were planets.

644
00:40:09,380 --> 00:40:10,380
And Jupiter.

645
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:14,380
Yeah, this sort of shed the doubt.

646
00:40:14,380 --> 00:40:19,380
And why do they protest so much of the Air Force interference or withholding?

647
00:40:19,380 --> 00:40:22,380
Because I like to believe in these things.

648
00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:28,380
But I'm not sure whether I want to believe on them or perhaps I should fear them.

649
00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:29,820
I don't know.

650
00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:32,820
What is your follow-up say?

651
00:40:32,820 --> 00:40:33,820
Right.

652
00:40:33,820 --> 00:40:37,260
Well, concerning Jupiter and all of these other natural phenomena, misidentified as

653
00:40:37,260 --> 00:40:41,180
UFOs, we in nightcap agree wholeheartedly with you.

654
00:40:41,180 --> 00:40:42,180
It's unfortunate.

655
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:45,660
This is sort of a loud noise level of very poor reports.

656
00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:48,340
It's very hard to weed out the good from the bad.

657
00:40:48,340 --> 00:40:51,220
But what we're interested in is in the good reports.

658
00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:58,220
Now, the United States Air Force has a project that has grown from a one-man group to a size

659
00:40:58,380 --> 00:41:01,900
of a project stationed at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

660
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:05,620
It's part of the Air Force Systems Command, the Foreign Technology Division.

661
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:09,620
And they know much more about UFOs than they have since, say, 1947, 1948.

662
00:41:09,620 --> 00:41:14,620
And there are many civilian scientists who would like to get hold of this information.

663
00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:16,620
And they're quite a...

664
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:20,980
Well, I would say the public at large would like to know more about it.

665
00:41:20,980 --> 00:41:22,860
We don't like to grind and act for the Air Force.

666
00:41:22,860 --> 00:41:25,380
It isn't really their fault.

667
00:41:25,380 --> 00:41:26,380
I mean, they're...

668
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:30,380
I just receiving orders from one high to keep quiet about this for many reasons.

669
00:41:30,380 --> 00:41:32,380
This is really so, then.

670
00:41:32,380 --> 00:41:33,380
Right.

671
00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:35,380
I have AFR 200-2, a...

672
00:41:35,380 --> 00:41:37,860
at the General Air Force Regulation right before me.

673
00:41:37,860 --> 00:41:42,980
And it's very obvious from reading this regulation that they take great pains to keep the good

674
00:41:42,980 --> 00:41:44,740
UFO sightings from the public.

675
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:49,740
So, in other words, this New Hampshire sighting, which took place in September, there were

676
00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:52,900
really Air Force people that got out there fast and tried to...

677
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:53,900
Definitely.

678
00:41:53,900 --> 00:41:54,900
So, a tenant...

679
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:57,900
Well, first of all, there was a major lieutenant, Lieutenant Brandt.

680
00:41:57,900 --> 00:41:59,900
I remember that name.

681
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:01,900
They went out, they talked to the witnesses.

682
00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:03,900
They went through the field with a gaga counter.

683
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:05,900
They went and talked to people in the area.

684
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:08,900
And they were back several times.

685
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:13,900
The police told me that one night they came up there with a full colonel, full bird colonel,

686
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:16,900
and sat in the field practically half the night.

687
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:17,900
Oh.

688
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:19,900
Now, this is all documented.

689
00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:21,900
Well, all right.

690
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:22,900
You've told me.

691
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:26,900
One more thing is, are these meetings open to the public that you hold?

692
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:29,900
And if we write to one of them, do we find out some information?

693
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:31,900
You can get information concerning our national work.

694
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:33,900
Our subcommittee doesn't hold meetings.

695
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:38,900
We do give a lecture, a slide lecture, a 35-millimeter slide lecture entitled,

696
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:42,900
UFO Facts About Unidentified Flying Objects.

697
00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:45,900
And we go about giving this lecture to interested groups.

698
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:46,900
Good stuff.

699
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:47,900
We'll write.

700
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:48,900
Thanks.

701
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:49,900
Right.

702
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:51,900
We're at Devonshire 86510.

703
00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:53,900
You're on the air now.

704
00:42:53,900 --> 00:42:54,900
Thank you.

705
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:55,900
Mr. Hayward?

706
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:56,900
Yes, sir.

707
00:42:56,900 --> 00:42:57,900
I'd like to speak to Ray Fowler.

708
00:42:57,900 --> 00:42:59,900
He's on the phone with you right here.

709
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:00,900
All right, Mr. Fowler?

710
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:01,900
Yes, sir.

711
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:04,900
I'm a member of the New England UFO Study Group.

712
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:05,900
Right.

713
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:08,900
And I'm very interested in flying saucers.

714
00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:16,900
And one of the meetings here, they had this article about some Air Force captain captured

715
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,900
a UFO.

716
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:23,900
And they said that there were two bodies in them.

717
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:25,900
And one was completely decapitated.

718
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:30,900
The other one was fairly well intact, about three inches high.

719
00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:37,900
And they took the spaceship and they also took the body and they put them in a bottle

720
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:38,900
and put them in formaldehyde.

721
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:40,900
And they're somewhere in Smithsonian Institute.

722
00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:42,900
Have you heard anything about that?

723
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:44,900
We hear tales of like this all the time.

724
00:43:44,900 --> 00:43:47,900
And we've investigated the major ones.

725
00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:51,900
We found that there is no fact behind reports like this.

726
00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:54,900
Now, it is possible that things like this have happened.

727
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:59,900
But we frown upon reports like this unless there's actually document and evidence.

728
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:05,900
There are all kinds of crazy rumors going about concerning captured UFOs.

729
00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:09,900
And there are some of these contact groups who claim that the UFO people are walking

730
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:10,900
among us.

731
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:12,900
They're one of the Pentagon and it gets way out.

732
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:17,900
What NICAP is interested in is good documented UFO sightings.

733
00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:19,900
Thanks for the call, sir.

734
00:44:19,900 --> 00:44:20,900
Thank you, sir.

735
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:22,900
I better tell my favorite story then on this.

736
00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:24,900
It happens to be a fact.

737
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,900
A fact in the sense of its legal results.

738
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:37,900
You can click please out in Arizona where a fellow claimed as a contactee that a moon maiden

739
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:43,900
in a spaceship landed near his farm, asked him to take a trip with her.

740
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:47,900
She was a very charming, lowering creature in the spaceship.

741
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:54,900
He did a dalliance ensued, so he said and told all of his friends.

742
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:56,900
He also told his wife.

743
00:44:56,900 --> 00:45:03,900
His wife then sued him for divorce in the courts of Arizona, naming the moon maiden as correspondent.

744
00:45:03,900 --> 00:45:05,900
And she was granted the divorce.

745
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:09,900
And this always intrigues me.

746
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:12,900
You're tuned for Radio 68's Boston Forum.

747
00:45:12,900 --> 00:45:18,900
I don't think NICAP will accept that one, but it is only on the court records at least.

748
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:29,900
Our guest is Ray Fowler of NICAP, our subject at Devinshire 86510, is UFOs, unidentified flying objects.

749
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:32,900
And what they mean to you and me.

750
00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:41,900
It is interesting to note very quickly too that the royal astronomer of England in 1956 stated,

751
00:45:41,900 --> 00:45:45,900
space travel is utter bilge.

752
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:52,900
One year later, the first sputnik was orbiting the earth 15 times each day.

753
00:45:52,900 --> 00:46:01,900
Our phone number on Radio 68 Boston Forum is DEH 6510, our guest Ray Fowler of NICAP, our subject UFOs.

754
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:03,900
More phone call, let's go Bob.

755
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:06,900
Devinshire 86510, you're on the air.

756
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:07,900
Hello, Mr. Vincenzo.

757
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:08,900
Yes ma'am.

758
00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:11,900
And Mr. Fowler, I'd like to ask a question.

759
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:12,900
Please.

760
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:17,900
Supposing there were a planet much more advanced than earth with flying saucers,

761
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:21,900
why would you think the beings on it would not make themselves known to us?

762
00:46:21,900 --> 00:46:23,900
What would they have to lose?

763
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:29,900
This is the $64 questions that's asked everywhere where we have our lectures wherever we go.

764
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:31,900
We don't know any more than you do.

765
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:33,900
All we can do is speculate.

766
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:40,900
Do you think that if the earth ever progressed that far, that we'd ever avoid visiting a planet with cavemen on it?

767
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:42,900
Well, we're trying to.

768
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:43,900
We think.

769
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:51,900
You can look at it this way, a race that is significantly far in advance of our own might be also very humanitarian

770
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:54,900
and know the impact it would cause upon our civilization.

771
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:56,900
That could be one reason.

772
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:02,900
Another reason could be that there are very few of them, I mean by them, the creatures themselves,

773
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:06,900
much of what we see and haven't seen could be machines.

774
00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:12,900
And they themselves could be just as vulnerable to us as we are to an aborigine tribe,

775
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:14,900
even though we are much more advanced.

776
00:47:14,900 --> 00:47:17,900
I'm sure that the Stone Age weapons could put us out of commission.

777
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:24,900
In any of the certifiable sightings, Ray, has there been any sort of a report of an attack of any sort?

778
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:29,900
Any hostile action on the UFO's part?

779
00:47:29,900 --> 00:47:33,900
People have been hurt by close hovering UFOs.

780
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:35,900
I don't feel that this is directed.

781
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:38,900
I think that maybe it was something to do with the propulsion system.

782
00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:39,900
What have you?

783
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:40,900
They have been burned.

784
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:42,900
They've received shocks.

785
00:47:42,900 --> 00:47:47,900
This has happened many, many times when people have been approached by UFOs,

786
00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:50,900
feeling an electrical type shock from the UFO.

787
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:55,900
And I would warn all listeners, if you have a Ducie or UFO, don't get too close to it,

788
00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:57,900
because of this very fact.

789
00:47:57,900 --> 00:47:59,900
I don't feel that they are hostile.

790
00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:06,900
Of course, they want an aircraft, begin chasing them and shooting them.

791
00:48:06,900 --> 00:48:08,900
Anything can happen.

792
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:12,900
Of course, we couldn't blame the occupants, so they shot back as it were.

793
00:48:12,900 --> 00:48:15,900
The same time when you don't invite them to play mahjong with you.

794
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:16,900
That's right.

795
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:19,900
Thanks for the call, too, ma'am.

796
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:23,900
DE-86510, you're on WNAC.

797
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:24,900
Hello?

798
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:25,900
Yes, sir.

799
00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:33,900
Last Friday on this same station, you had a program on UFOs.

800
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:35,900
Friday, you had it right, huh?

801
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:44,900
Well, I was listening to it and three or four people called and said they had seen a very brilliant object

802
00:48:44,900 --> 00:48:47,900
drop from the sky and come straight down.

803
00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:48,900
Yes, sir.

804
00:48:48,900 --> 00:48:57,900
Now, Wednesday at approximately 4.45, I was traveling north and directly ahead of me,

805
00:48:57,900 --> 00:48:59,900
I saw the very same thing.

806
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:05,900
A brilliantly lit object, probably the size of a half a dollar, and it seemed to come straight down.

807
00:49:05,900 --> 00:49:08,900
It didn't go across the sky, but it seemed to come straight down.

808
00:49:08,900 --> 00:49:10,900
Could you give me any comment on that?

809
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:12,900
I haven't heard of that particular sighting.

810
00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:14,900
Of course, we did go through it.

811
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:17,900
It was known the target media shower not too long ago.

812
00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:24,900
And fireballs can look as big as a half dollar, and it's length sometimes bigger.

813
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:29,900
It would be just a light in the sky report unless there was something more substantial in there.

814
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:35,900
Now, the light came straight down in its start and hovered for a while, and then moved off and hovered again

815
00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:39,900
and made a few right angle turns and then shot straight back up.

816
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:41,900
Then we would have what was called a UFO report.

817
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:49,900
I would say that this would be a media or a fireball that was witnessed.

818
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:54,900
But who can say there's just insufficient evidence, I guess, that we would label that type of report.

819
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:55,900
Can we thank you for the call on it, sir?

820
00:49:55,900 --> 00:49:56,900
You're welcome.

821
00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:58,900
Devonshire 86510, you're on the air.

822
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:00,900
Yes, I'd like to ask two questions.

823
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:11,900
Why is it that the UFO or, I'm not sure, the Air Force or anyone has not made contact with these UFOs?

824
00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:16,900
And why? What is the problem? Why is it so hard?

825
00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:19,900
I'm not sure that they have or have not.

826
00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:23,900
We don't know because of official secrecy surrounding the subject.

827
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:30,900
Well, has anyone else, have you known, other than scientists, have made any contact?

828
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:32,900
I mean, have people said they've contacted them?

829
00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:38,900
Well, the only type of contact, if you want to call it, that has been documented, well, we could take the Father Gil case,

830
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:44,900
which we mentioned earlier, where Father Gil, members of his missionary staff, doctors and so forth,

831
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:50,900
saw this UFO, round UFO hovering over the harbor, several hundred feet away.

832
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:55,900
And he, Father Gil, asked that a torch or a flashlight, I guess, would be the correct term to use for,

833
00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:58,900
they call them torches over there, and flashed at it.

834
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:02,900
And one of the beings actually waved at Father Gil.

835
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:05,900
Now, if you want to call us or contact, we do have documented reports.

836
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:06,900
This is this.

837
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:10,900
For example, a police cruiser was chasing a UFO, I think it was around Lake Michigan,

838
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:14,900
and they finally came upon it, it was hovering over a tree nearby a field,

839
00:51:14,900 --> 00:51:18,900
and one of the officers turned down the rotating light on top of the cruiser.

840
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:21,900
Several seconds later, a light flash from the UFO, then it moved off.

841
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:24,900
No, but it always was in response to something we did.

842
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:27,900
The thing, why are they here?

843
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,900
We would love to know why they are here.

844
00:51:30,900 --> 00:51:34,900
It seems in the early years, they might have been attracted by atomic bomb explosions,

845
00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:39,900
although there were some sightings before atomic age during the World War II.

846
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:43,900
They seem to have made a general survey of the Earth, the planet Earth.

847
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:45,900
They've been seen throughout the world.

848
00:51:45,900 --> 00:51:50,900
They've been very, very interested in areas of really interesting places,

849
00:51:50,900 --> 00:51:54,900
like atomic energy installations, harbors, and critical manufacturing areas.

850
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:57,900
And this indicates that they're under intelligent control,

851
00:51:57,900 --> 00:51:59,900
because according to the laws of normal distribution,

852
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:02,900
UFOs are not intelligently controlled vehicles.

853
00:52:02,900 --> 00:52:05,900
The distribution of reports should be similar to the distribution of population in the United States,

854
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:06,900
and this isn't so.

855
00:52:06,900 --> 00:52:08,900
They're very selective.

856
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:14,900
In fact, the Air Force is so interested in this aspect of UFOs that they set up back in 1953,

857
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:19,900
special cameras with diffraction gradings to take photographs of UFOs

858
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:21,900
and try to analyze their power source.

859
00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:24,900
We thank you for the call too, ma'am.

860
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:25,900
Thank you very much.

861
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:34,900
You're tuned for Radio 68 Boston Forum on WNAC, our guest refower of NYCAP, our subject, UFOs.

862
00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:37,900
Our phone number is Devonshire 86510.

863
00:52:37,900 --> 00:52:40,900
This is Radio 68 Boston Forum.

864
00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:42,900
My name is Hayward Vincent.

865
00:52:42,900 --> 00:52:45,900
My guest is Ray Fowler, and you're on the air with us.

866
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:47,900
Yes, I have a question for Mr. Fowler.

867
00:52:47,900 --> 00:52:48,900
Please, ma'am.

868
00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:50,900
I'm calling from Dorchester.

869
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:55,900
And my son and daughter and I, on Saturday, October the 30th,

870
00:52:55,900 --> 00:53:01,900
cited what we thought was a UFO over Dorchester, about 7.30 in the evening.

871
00:53:01,900 --> 00:53:04,900
And we reported it to the hands-on air base.

872
00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:05,900
Yes, ma'am.

873
00:53:05,900 --> 00:53:10,900
And I was wondering if you knew if other people made that same sighting.

874
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:12,900
Could you briefly describe the object to me?

875
00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:15,900
It was a very bright light when it was here over Dorchester,

876
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:17,900
and it seemed to have quite a bit of depth while it was here.

877
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:21,900
And it's how the very low almost seemed to come down to the tree top.

878
00:53:21,900 --> 00:53:24,900
Was it flashing? Flashing lights in sequence?

879
00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:27,900
It was steady, and then it would go off for an instant.

880
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:29,900
And then come back on again?

881
00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:31,900
And then come back on. Just a fraction of an instant.

882
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:36,900
Right. This object that you have described is an advertising plane

883
00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:39,900
operated by Joseph Bodiner.

884
00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:44,900
He is the manager of the Skylight Advertising Company in Boston.

885
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:46,900
He flies out of Beverly Airport.

886
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:48,900
He goes right over Dorchester. I think he was flying October 30th.

887
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:53,900
We get more reports of his advertising plane than of anything else.

888
00:53:53,900 --> 00:53:56,900
I thought it might be that, but the pattern of the flying

889
00:53:56,900 --> 00:53:59,900
didn't seem as if it could possibly be a plane.

890
00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:01,900
We recorded it anyway.

891
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:03,900
Sure. Let's go with what you did.

892
00:54:03,900 --> 00:54:05,900
His plane can take on so many different configurations,

893
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:07,900
and what we do, we have an understanding of whether we call up

894
00:54:07,900 --> 00:54:10,900
to get his flight plan for nights.

895
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:15,900
And we find that nine times out of ten is his aircraft,

896
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:18,900
although people describe it as everything you can imagine.

897
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:21,900
Well, we spent quite a terrible weekend.

898
00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:24,900
I had hoped it was mass helicopter airlines, frankly,

899
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:27,900
but then you can't win them all. Thanks for the call, ma'am.

900
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:31,900
We're at Devonshire 86-I-10 on WNAC. You're on the air now.

901
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:33,900
Hello. Yes.

902
00:54:33,900 --> 00:54:36,900
I tuned in late, and I was interested in getting the name

903
00:54:36,900 --> 00:54:40,900
and address of the people who give the slide lecture on UFOs.

904
00:54:40,900 --> 00:54:43,900
Well, the organization is NICAP.

905
00:54:43,900 --> 00:54:48,900
You may contact the chairman of its subcommittee here in the state,

906
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:56,900
Ray Fowler, at 13, that's 1-3, friend as in charm, friend court.

907
00:54:56,900 --> 00:54:59,900
And when I'm in Massachusetts.

908
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:00,900
When him.

909
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:01,900
Okay.

910
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:03,900
Okay. Thank you. Join your program very much.

911
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:04,900
Thanks so much.

912
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:07,900
Devonshire 86-I-10 is our calling number. Ray Fowler is our guest.

913
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:08,900
You're on the air.

914
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:12,900
Thank you. I'm also a member of the New England UFO study group.

915
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:13,900
Yes, sir.

916
00:55:13,900 --> 00:55:15,900
And I wanted to point out that the member who called before

917
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:18,900
talked about the little men in the Smithsonian.

918
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:21,900
That report was strictly brought up as an example

919
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:23,900
of an unconfirmed wild rumor.

920
00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:28,900
I'd also like to ask Ray Fowler if he cared to comment on the Barney Hill case,

921
00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:31,900
which broke in the papers a couple of weeks ago.

922
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:37,900
The Barney Hill case, the official NICAP position on the Barney Hill case is as follows.

923
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:42,900
Number one, the first part of the sighting NICAP feels could be true.

924
00:55:42,900 --> 00:55:45,900
There are many people who have described UFOs hovering over their cars

925
00:55:45,900 --> 00:55:47,900
and so forth movements inside the object.

926
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:51,900
The second part, NICAP just does not know.

927
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:58,900
NICAP is the only organization which has tapes or transcripts from the tapes

928
00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:03,900
taken during the psychiatric examinations, the hypnosis sessions and so forth.

929
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:08,900
All we can say is that the tapes are for real.

930
00:56:08,900 --> 00:56:13,900
Both Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill related their story under hypnosis

931
00:56:13,900 --> 00:56:18,900
and it seems to tally with their account.

932
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:22,900
But all the rest is speculation.

933
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:26,900
We are not convinced that it is true.

934
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:27,900
I see, thank you very much.

935
00:56:27,900 --> 00:56:29,900
Okay sir, thank you for the call too.

936
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:32,900
Devon, cheer 86510, you're on the air.

937
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:34,900
I would like to ask you a question.

938
00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:35,900
Please.

939
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:36,900
And I hang up to hear his comment.

940
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:37,900
Alright, fine.

941
00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:47,900
Can these objects be detected by a certain signal they would emit?

942
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:49,900
I'm not sure.

943
00:56:49,900 --> 00:56:54,900
There have been cases where police cruises have picked up strange beeping

944
00:56:54,900 --> 00:56:57,900
and static from UFOs in the area.

945
00:56:57,900 --> 00:57:01,900
I imagine the Air Force has been thinking along these lines for years

946
00:57:01,900 --> 00:57:03,900
and has set up special stations and so forth,

947
00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:07,900
scientifically manned stations to see if this is so.

948
00:57:07,900 --> 00:57:11,900
But now we have a lot of people who have been in the area

949
00:57:11,900 --> 00:57:14,900
and they have been in the area for years.

950
00:57:14,900 --> 00:57:18,900
And I think that is the reason why we are trying to encourage

951
00:57:18,900 --> 00:57:20,900
civilian scientists and civilian investigations

952
00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:22,900
to see if this is so.

953
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:27,900
But NICAP not being a fully equipped scientific organization

954
00:57:27,900 --> 00:57:30,900
is not equipped to do things like this.

955
00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:34,900
We are trying to encourage civilian scientists and civilian investigations

956
00:57:34,900 --> 00:57:37,900
and to encourage our government to release more information on this

957
00:57:37,900 --> 00:57:39,900
so we know the answers to these questions.

958
00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:41,900
But they have been picked up by radar.

959
00:57:41,900 --> 00:57:44,900
The electromagnetic detection instruments were affected.

960
00:57:44,900 --> 00:57:46,900
The radios were affected.

961
00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:50,900
The object was tracked on radar, I believe,

962
00:57:50,900 --> 00:57:53,900
plus seen from the ear and from the ground as a solid,

963
00:57:53,900 --> 00:57:56,900
intelligently controlled, maneuverable object.

964
00:57:56,900 --> 00:58:01,900
So there are other means of detecting UFOs rather than the eye.

965
00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:03,900
Heat has been felt, for example.

966
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:05,900
They have left indentations in the ground.

967
00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:08,900
They have affected the ground, scorched the ground, left indentations and so forth.

968
00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:12,900
So we are not just dependent upon our five senses per se.

969
00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:14,900
Thank you, Mr. Fowler.

970
00:58:14,900 --> 00:58:16,900
You are on the air now.

971
00:58:16,900 --> 00:58:18,900
Good evening, sir.

972
00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:23,900
One question I have to ask Mr. Fowler is this.

973
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:28,900
You will recall that Major Donald Keyhoe wrote a book on UFOs some time ago.

974
00:58:28,900 --> 00:58:29,900
Yes.

975
00:58:29,900 --> 00:58:33,900
And in that book he referred to as Planet Toys, or rather a planet

976
00:58:33,900 --> 00:58:38,900
that the Air Force referred to as the most predominant place

977
00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:42,900
that UFOs could emanate from, that being Wolf 359.

978
00:58:42,900 --> 00:58:47,900
Now, a short time ago a woman called, regarding reports,

979
00:58:47,900 --> 00:58:49,900
it was made on a radio, the Southern Hill.

980
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:50,900
Right, sir.

981
00:58:50,900 --> 00:58:54,900
But radio transmission coming from the area Wolf 3.

982
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:55,900
Wolf 3, right.

983
00:58:55,900 --> 00:58:57,900
I wonder if that's the same general area.

984
00:58:57,900 --> 00:58:59,900
Well, this isn't actually called Wolf 3.

985
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:01,900
It's called W3.

986
00:59:01,900 --> 00:59:03,900
Yes, it could stand for the same thing.

987
00:59:03,900 --> 00:59:06,900
I don't think it's the same area.

988
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:13,900
The book that Major Keyhoe wrote, I think, referred to Herman von Oberth,

989
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:22,900
who was the German scientist, von Braun, and others were trained under him.

990
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:25,900
He's called the father of German rocketry, I guess.

991
00:59:25,900 --> 00:59:27,900
He came out with this statement.

992
00:59:27,900 --> 00:59:31,900
The way he has now retired from Huntsville, Alabama, is back in Germany.

993
00:59:31,900 --> 00:59:34,900
He feels strongly that UFOs are into planetary, and he has an outfit,

994
00:59:34,900 --> 00:59:38,900
an organization very similar to Nike, I don't know, his lodge,

995
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:42,900
but one which does civilian UFO investigation.

996
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:44,900
All right, thanks.

997
00:59:44,900 --> 00:59:46,900
Thanks for the call, sir.

998
00:59:46,900 --> 00:59:51,900
WNAC's Devonshire 86510 is our number.

999
00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:52,900
You're on the air.

1000
00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:57,900
Yes, since I dialed in, someone has asked a question about this sort of robotic interview.

1001
00:59:57,900 --> 01:00:01,900
I'm talking about the newspaper story that ran the series of 3 the other night,

1002
01:00:01,900 --> 01:00:08,900
and I didn't get a chance to see the end of it, but is this what Mr. Fowler says they have little doubt,

1003
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:11,900
or they doubt that it's a true story.

1004
01:00:11,900 --> 01:00:14,900
I'd like to hear his thoughts on how to hang up and listen to him.

1005
01:00:14,900 --> 01:00:16,900
Okay, sir, thanks for the call.

1006
01:00:16,900 --> 01:00:23,900
We feel that we know for a fact Mr. Walter Webb, who was head lecturer at Hayden Planetarium,

1007
01:00:23,900 --> 01:00:31,900
has studied the Hill case for about four years now, and has recently submitted a very detailed report to NICAP.

1008
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:39,900
He, the psychiatrist in the Hills, are the only ones who have actually had access to the tapes of these psychiatric examinations,

1009
01:00:39,900 --> 01:00:44,900
hypnotic sessions and so forth, and he has told me that the results,

1010
01:00:44,900 --> 01:00:52,900
the information on the tapes is even more dramatic than what the travel story carried.

1011
01:00:52,900 --> 01:01:02,900
However, we feel that this is not sufficient proof to say that these people actually did experience this encounter with UFOs,

1012
01:01:02,900 --> 01:01:05,900
an abduction and so forth. It's very fantastic.

1013
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:09,900
Personally, I can't not speak for Nike, I personally find it very hard to accept.

1014
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:10,900
However, there's still...

1015
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:13,900
We have overtones of the search for what was the name, Brady Murphy.

1016
01:01:13,900 --> 01:01:18,900
Right, but these people, a complete character check, they've done on the people,

1017
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:23,900
and they're solid class A citizens, as far as back as you can go.

1018
01:01:23,900 --> 01:01:29,900
The hypnosis sessions are genuine, conducted by an eminent psychiatrist,

1019
01:01:29,900 --> 01:01:35,900
and one must explain these things, but there just isn't enough real strong evidence to,

1020
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:40,900
for NICAP to come out with a statement at this time, whether it indeed accepts this is true or not.

1021
01:01:40,900 --> 01:01:42,900
That's about as much as I could say about it right now.

1022
01:01:42,900 --> 01:01:47,900
We thank you for the call too. Long distance call, let's save them some dough, huh?

1023
01:01:47,900 --> 01:01:48,900
You're on the air now.

1024
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:49,900
Hi, Heywood.

1025
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:50,900
Yes, sir.

1026
01:01:50,900 --> 01:01:53,900
And Mr. Fowler, this is Gene Whaloney up in Manchester, New Hampshire.

1027
01:01:53,900 --> 01:01:54,900
Hi Gene.

1028
01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:57,900
And I'm truly excited about these UFOs.

1029
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:01,900
I've even subscribed for two years to this crazy magazine, Fate.

1030
01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:03,900
What's it called, sir?

1031
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:04,900
Pardon me?

1032
01:02:04,900 --> 01:02:05,900
Fate?

1033
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:07,900
Fate, F-A-T-E is the name of the magazine.

1034
01:02:07,900 --> 01:02:09,900
That's in Kismet, huh?

1035
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:15,900
And of course, I don't like the juvenile way that they report the sightings that they constantly broadcast,

1036
01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:19,900
or publish in the magazine.

1037
01:02:19,900 --> 01:02:20,900
Yes, sir.

1038
01:02:20,900 --> 01:02:24,900
It's poorly written, but I'm a firm believer nevertheless of UFOs.

1039
01:02:24,900 --> 01:02:26,900
I have never seen one.

1040
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:29,900
Let's say that I want to believe in it, okay?

1041
01:02:29,900 --> 01:02:30,900
Uh-huh.

1042
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:36,900
Now, number one, I've listened to this show all the way from the beginning to the end,

1043
01:02:36,900 --> 01:02:42,900
and I take many sides of the opinions of these various people that have called.

1044
01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:48,900
Now, number one, if the UFO is hush-hushing this whole business, why do they do that?

1045
01:02:48,900 --> 01:02:50,900
Why don't they want us to know this?

1046
01:02:50,900 --> 01:02:51,900
Now, that's point number one.

1047
01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:55,900
The Air Force, sir, or the actual force controlling the UFOs?

1048
01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:57,900
Well, either way you want to put it.

1049
01:02:57,900 --> 01:02:58,900
All right.

1050
01:02:58,900 --> 01:02:59,900
Either way.

1051
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:00,900
All right.

1052
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:07,900
Now, if this is so, that these UFOs are in our atmosphere and so on, and they are intelligent beings and so on.

1053
01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:13,900
Now, there has been some word from Chile that they're going to return in December.

1054
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:14,900
You've heard something about this.

1055
01:03:14,900 --> 01:03:15,900
Right, sir.

1056
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:16,900
Right.

1057
01:03:16,900 --> 01:03:20,900
Now, you can imagine a mass hysteria that's going to break loose.

1058
01:03:20,900 --> 01:03:21,900
Should this be true?

1059
01:03:21,900 --> 01:03:23,900
Now, should it be true?

1060
01:03:23,900 --> 01:03:26,900
Why doesn't the Air Force lift the lid off of this?

1061
01:03:26,900 --> 01:03:29,900
In other words, even years previous, okay?

1062
01:03:29,900 --> 01:03:31,900
Well, perhaps in Chile they will.

1063
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:33,900
This is an hysteria from this whole thing.

1064
01:03:33,900 --> 01:03:34,900
A lot.

1065
01:03:34,900 --> 01:03:37,900
And that's point number two.

1066
01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:45,900
Point number three, if it's not true, and the UFOs are not here, then they should certainly be able to do that.

1067
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:54,900
They should certainly be able to disprove the UFO sightings as far as these radio reflected lights are concerned and everything like this.

1068
01:03:54,900 --> 01:03:58,900
I don't go off and like this lady called will all do respect to her.

1069
01:03:58,900 --> 01:04:06,900
I mean, she should be more careful once she looks at something and say, well, here, I've seen many airplanes fly with radio signs on them.

1070
01:04:06,900 --> 01:04:10,900
You know, flashing red lights and advertising things, neon signs and things.

1071
01:04:10,900 --> 01:04:14,900
Well, I think one of the valuable purposes of NICAP.

1072
01:04:14,900 --> 01:04:15,900
Yes.

1073
01:04:15,900 --> 01:04:23,900
Is to explain rationally and these things and to try to avoid a mass hysteria.

1074
01:04:23,900 --> 01:04:24,900
Yes.

1075
01:04:24,900 --> 01:04:25,900
Well, that's what I would like to know.

1076
01:04:25,900 --> 01:04:28,900
Why they don't take that into consideration.

1077
01:04:28,900 --> 01:04:38,900
And I've talked to a man in the radio business and he tells me that evidently the government gets together and they say that there is something to this.

1078
01:04:38,900 --> 01:04:40,900
Now, why don't they just alert the general public?

1079
01:04:40,900 --> 01:04:42,900
Why the big secrecy?

1080
01:04:42,900 --> 01:04:43,900
I did.

1081
01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:57,900
And the other thing as far as these these different broadcasts are coming in, I get interference from TV, but this is nothing more than fellows with these command radios or something.

1082
01:04:57,900 --> 01:04:58,900
That's right.

1083
01:04:58,900 --> 01:05:01,900
You need interference or if somebody has an X-ray machine in your area.

1084
01:05:01,900 --> 01:05:03,900
That's mainly what it really is.

1085
01:05:03,900 --> 01:05:05,900
It could easily be that.

1086
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:06,900
Right.

1087
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:07,900
Now, I'll listen to the answer.

1088
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:08,900
Okay.

1089
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:09,900
We've got them.

1090
01:05:09,900 --> 01:05:10,900
We're going to try.

1091
01:05:10,900 --> 01:05:11,900
I didn't mean to take this much time.

1092
01:05:11,900 --> 01:05:12,900
Thanks for the call.

1093
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:14,900
I want to believe, but let's hear the facts.

1094
01:05:14,900 --> 01:05:15,900
Thanks for the call, sir.

1095
01:05:15,900 --> 01:05:16,900
Thank you.

1096
01:05:16,900 --> 01:05:19,900
One can only speculate the reasons why this is being kept from the public.

1097
01:05:19,900 --> 01:05:25,900
Of course, no government wants to admit to the public that there are intelligently controlled objects coming from who knows where.

1098
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:28,900
We don't know why they're here and we can't do anything about it.

1099
01:05:28,900 --> 01:05:30,900
Ray, you're off, Michael, a little bit.

1100
01:05:30,900 --> 01:05:31,900
Fox, excuse me.

1101
01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:32,900
Thank you, sir.

1102
01:05:32,900 --> 01:05:33,900
Right.

1103
01:05:33,900 --> 01:05:38,900
The King's Institute, report number 242, prepared for NASA 1961, has a chapter entitled,

1104
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:41,900
Implications of a Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life.

1105
01:05:41,900 --> 01:05:48,900
And they point out many reasons why the public information concerning such discovery should be kept from the public.

1106
01:05:48,900 --> 01:05:53,900
What most amazing to me in one way is that it states, quote,

1107
01:05:53,900 --> 01:05:57,900
if superintelligence is discovered, the results become quite unpredictable.

1108
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:05,900
It has been speculated that of all groups, scientists and engineers might be the most devastated by the discovery of relatively superior creatures.

1109
01:06:05,900 --> 01:06:10,900
Briefly, it covers all aspects of society as we know it, and it paints a very pessimistic picture.

1110
01:06:10,900 --> 01:06:11,900
Why?

1111
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:17,900
Because the public isn't prepared philosophically, theologically, and what have you for such a revelation.

1112
01:06:17,900 --> 01:06:22,900
The first thing that I think the public cap's contention is that the public, our government and other governments of the world,

1113
01:06:22,900 --> 01:06:27,900
should have a public information program gradually preparing the public for such a revelation.

1114
01:06:27,900 --> 01:06:31,900
The least they could do is release more pertinent information in UFOs.

1115
01:06:31,900 --> 01:06:37,900
There are many members of Congress, for example, who feel that open congressional hearings should be held on UFOs.

1116
01:06:37,900 --> 01:06:40,900
Up to this time, all congressional hearings have been classified.

1117
01:06:40,900 --> 01:06:44,900
The public, like Congress John W. McCormick, for example, has stated for nightcap,

1118
01:06:44,900 --> 01:06:49,900
I feel that the Air Force has not been giving out all the information it has on the unidentified flying objects.

1119
01:06:49,900 --> 01:06:53,900
Simington, the public has sound reason for being confused about this.

1120
01:06:53,900 --> 01:06:58,900
The public should be given all information which would not adversely affect our national security.

1121
01:06:58,900 --> 01:07:08,900
We feel strongly that the public should be given, that the Air Force should be given some information concerning UFOs to the public.

1122
01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:12,900
A public information program, if you will, and this is what nightcap is trying to do.

1123
01:07:12,900 --> 01:07:18,900
Thank you, Ray. I'd like to express our sincere thanks to each of you who was phoned in this evening,

1124
01:07:18,900 --> 01:07:25,900
to the many of you who are still standing on our phone lines because we simply couldn't get to you,

1125
01:07:25,900 --> 01:07:28,900
for your patience and your understanding.

1126
01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:37,900
Ray has certainly presented as clear and illuminating a picture of the overall feel that is UFO,

1127
01:07:37,900 --> 01:07:41,900
that I have ever been privileged to hear and we thank him.

1128
01:07:41,900 --> 01:07:46,900
I'd like to say that views expressed are seen by speakers of their own,

1129
01:07:46,900 --> 01:07:51,900
not those essentially of the RKO stations, are our sponsors.

1130
01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:55,900
Our program is produced by Bob Walsh. My name is Haywood Vincent.